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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptics own podcast

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episode number 528 for the 2nd of

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December 2018

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Richard Saul is here with you from an

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unknown undisclosed destination location

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I should say the past week I have been

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hit by a runaway train called the man

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flu or something like that not nice not

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Pleasant getting back on my feet now

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sitting in a car I won't go into it it's

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a plane flying overhead a bit mysterious

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I know I know but owing to my illness

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I've had to grab bits and pieces of time

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to put the show together this week

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mysterious isn't coming up on this

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week's episode more from skeptic on just

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last month here in Sydney Australia

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Maynard chats to linguist Lee Murray and

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what a fascinating woman she is - she's

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gonna be talking about linguistic

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accommodation Australian English Noam

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Chomsky proto languages tonal languages

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and all sorts of other things if you

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love linguistics this will be an

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interesting interview for you and may

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not has another chat - dr. Pamela Gay

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our favorite astronomer talking about

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thinking of others reality TV UFOs and

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SETI where are those aliens may not also

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catches up with one of the organizers of

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skeptic on elude Freeman and dr. vom

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Sharma after that it's a report and news

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report from Jane Hansen as read by me

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about dr. Julie Y Lehman the famed anti

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vaccination proponent what's she up to

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now then to round off the show and

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partly because I've been under the boat

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under the boat under the weather which

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is probably under the boat still not

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thinking clearly

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some radio clips are I did a couple

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years ago on a Sydney radio talking to

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some hosts at two different occasions

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the first clip is about Kim

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trails or condensation trails and then I

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talk about URIs which is the Australian

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equivalent of Bigfoot and the dog man

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whatever that is but that's enough for

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me at the moment while I sit here

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watching aeroplanes take off from Sydney

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Airport that might give you a clue as to

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my current location I think you can hear

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it now I mean it would be nice to say to

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you I'm on some sort of secret skeptical

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mission undercover it's not that

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glamorous while I sit here and have

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another cup of coffee I hope you enjoy

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[Music]

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years may not spooky action at a

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I focused time to get also known Chomsky

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on your right now because I've got Li

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with me and I'll make sure I get the

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surname correct that's Emily Mary that's

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an easy one

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Marie Marie like the river yeah okay and

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I you as clean as the river that's an

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Australian joke no Lucas parts of the

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Murray aren't that great oh I thought we

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were talking about the Yarra Oh see I'm

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from Melbourne when you say River being

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dirty that's that's the era yeah is it

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got any cleaner I don't know I have to

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say I haven't really gone near it I

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think it's still a bit Brown Wow what's

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your favorite part of Melbourne you know

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your Northcote person you like mix it in

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with the hipsters or you like to get out

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the Pascoe Vale everybody like to do

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oh no well I'm from the intercepts oh

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I'm from Rance and killed away ah that

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is a great place yeah it is super nice

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we've got the beach right there we've

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got heaps of trees Oh still got heaps at

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night life or people knocking it back a

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bit well I'm a little bit away from the

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partisan killed over has all the

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nightlife in it thankfully I'm in a nice

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sort of quiet pocket so no we don't get

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too much of that thankfully well the

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reason we're talking to you is because

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we're all about linguistic accommodation

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which is now I would define that is I've

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been listening to some American podcasts

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so first of all I've started to do

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things in feet ninjas for start not good

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for engineers and second thing is I used

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to say nuclear and now I'm starting to

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say nuclear I'm dividing it up into

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three now am I is that me learning how

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they speak and taking it into is that

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accommodation or not

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well accommodations usually happening in

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the course of a conversation so you

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might be accommodating to me now or I

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might be accommodating to you if it

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happens longer term we'd probably just

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consider that part of you changing your

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language in general oh yeah so is there

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any hard and fast rule as to who

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accommodates - who is that the person

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who starts speaking first is it has it

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worked oh I don't know about hard and

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fast rules but usually when people

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change the way they talk to adapt to

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someone it's because it's someone who

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has more power than they do or someone

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who has sort of a highest status than

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they have a lot of the time because I

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definitely accommodate when I'm talking

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to people who were who might be at

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mechanics or something like that and and

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people that are that are doing somewhere

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I consider real work

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and I go into their workshop and they're

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talking in a certain way I start to talk

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like that just - I don't know - so I

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don't seem like some uppity goose like

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coming in and Goku

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I would like my tire change thank you I

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just talk a little bit more colloquially

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as I'm not quite sure yeah yeah it's

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totally true it only the power thing

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kind of kicks in on the when it's on a

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larger scale or a longer term scale in

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person it's just to do with decreasing

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social distance so it doesn't really

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matter the status of the person you're

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talking to but if you want them to like

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you or if you want to get along better

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with them you'll start to sound like

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them and half the time you won't notice

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you're doing it yeah is it much of a is

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it actually much of a problem or not I

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don't think so I think it helps people

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to get along better with each other and

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anything that helps people to

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communicate more easily is a good thing

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in my book I don't know will it be the

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best place to observe this would you be

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to go to a place where people are having

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to have something done or go to a

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university where people are talking to

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their professor it's a good place we

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could observe this in action or many

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places it's a question of where you can

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go without it being creepy yes creepy

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factor yes so you can always sit in a

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cafe and eavesdrop on the people behind

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you I like to tell my students it's not

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creepy if it's ethnography or on a date

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if you're out on a date with someone and

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specifically a first date because

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everyone's trying to work out both

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parties might be trying to work out

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what's going on or not even if they do

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or don't like the person so and you have

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been sitting at a cafe when there's a

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obviously a first date going on and it's

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almost hilarious the level of

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awkwardness that all of us do on that

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situation because you try to present

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your your best self and Tim Fergus and I

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said so what was it what was it like on

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the first date with your wife he said I

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was the most charming beautiful person

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in the entire world I've never been so

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more charming than that evening yeah so

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you know people work really hard yeah

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it's really interesting to see that kind

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of thing happened with people meeting

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for the first time because then you've

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got this huge difference between say a

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couple on their first date and a couple

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of been married for years where they

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just say nothing you're just staring at

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each other and it seems like disdain but

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no that's that's just what you'd get

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after 30 years that and they're just

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really comfortable with each other so

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there's not so much or there might be

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some interruption or whatever else but

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no one cares they flip back and forth

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all the time whereas on the first date

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you've got all the uncomfortable

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silences and the accidental

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interruptions and they're all sorry yeah

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yeah because I was I was always like I

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was always like jumping in too quickly

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to fill a gap and that's probably one of

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the worst things you can do yes because

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you feel the silences are awkward rather

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than just the other person coming up

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with what they're going to say hmm yeah

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absolutely

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any advice then for a first date first

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date linguistic conversation what's the

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best way and please don't say be

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yourself you can do it so you think

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girls look better bond yeah but I don't

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want to be me don't mimic their accent

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on purpose they'll know ah right okay

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yes they will because they they know

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their accent yes my typically you know

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they might think you're mocking their

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racial group or something as well

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exactly exactly

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okay well that's what's really good

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advice people so look again lifestyle

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tips here at the skeptic zone and have

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you found the conference this weekend

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because a lot of people have been

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talking about various aspects of it that

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they've liked but what have you got out

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of it oh it's great I think the audience

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is a really really friendly audience

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they're really patient they're really

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happy to come up and chat to you and

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actually have I been asking you first

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date tips obviously I've been getting a

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lot of people ask me if I can tell them

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where they're from by listening to them

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are you that good ah depends I can get

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indication sometimes but no I'm not it's

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not like a magic trick and what you're

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you've got a degree in linguistics or

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what exactly is that you've got yes I am

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most of the way through a PhD in

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linguistics but I specialize in

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Australian English and I specialize in

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how Australian English is different Wow

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so as Noam Chomsky still revered as the

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guy or to some people consider me a bit

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of a snob because the way carries on

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outside the field of linguistics

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sometimes well I think his work was

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earlier on and it was quite foundational

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but I think since then since he's

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stepped off and move off into politics

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other linguists have stepped in and

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they've been refining his theories ever

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since mm-hmm and the reason we don't

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know about them is just they haven't

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gone into other areas and gone America

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must dial whatever he's on about this

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week yes exactly everyone else is still

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on their way to getting published

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yep Wow and so he sees shadow

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necessarily a bad one because all your

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linguistic so you must be an extreme

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communist no I have to say you're the

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first person who's ever said but I'm the

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cutting edge you know

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because I always felt I was it his

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name's very sticky as well that's part

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of it too like you don't know Chomsky is

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like it's like a a book you'd expect to

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see that on a book cover in an airport

271
00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:16,710
with an action novel 47 yes all written

272
00:10:19,700 --> 00:10:18,090
on a garden gnome there's a whole series

273
00:10:21,680 --> 00:10:19,710
of garden gnomes that are noam chomsky

274
00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:21,690
that's pretty funny too yes well it is I

275
00:10:25,820 --> 00:10:23,130
am one of the few linguists on the

276
00:10:27,410 --> 00:10:25,830
planet earth hates puns though um do

277
00:10:29,030 --> 00:10:27,420
they normally like them because I can

278
00:10:30,620 --> 00:10:29,040
see why it hate them because look I know

279
00:10:31,940 --> 00:10:30,630
Stephen Fry says they're a legitimate

280
00:10:33,560 --> 00:10:31,950
form of humor and I'll go with that

281
00:10:35,690 --> 00:10:33,570
Christie's he's been to university

282
00:10:39,290 --> 00:10:35,700
longer than me but I understand why you

283
00:10:41,780 --> 00:10:39,300
wouldn't because what if people keep one

284
00:10:44,900 --> 00:10:41,790
after the other puns is just one's okay

285
00:10:46,580 --> 00:10:44,910
but they tend to come in a group yes now

286
00:10:48,550 --> 00:10:46,590
I think linguists are generally fond of

287
00:10:50,900 --> 00:10:48,560
playing with words and fun with words

288
00:10:54,050 --> 00:10:50,910
okay so I don't know I think I'm an

289
00:10:55,970 --> 00:10:54,060
aberration so can you explain what your

290
00:10:58,340 --> 00:10:55,980
PhD is about at this point is it about

291
00:11:00,140 --> 00:10:58,350
the accommodation of language it's not

292
00:11:02,660 --> 00:11:00,150
strictly about accommodation I'm looking

293
00:11:04,100 --> 00:11:02,670
at how how Australian English is

294
00:11:06,260 --> 00:11:04,110
different from place to place in between

295
00:11:08,690 --> 00:11:06,270
different social groups but I'm more

296
00:11:10,850 --> 00:11:08,700
interested in what other people think

297
00:11:13,490 --> 00:11:10,860
about that so what can people who are

298
00:11:15,110 --> 00:11:13,500
not linguists actually tell about where

299
00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:15,120
someone's from or who they are based on

300
00:11:19,580 --> 00:11:16,770
how they talk are you incorporating

301
00:11:22,130 --> 00:11:19,590
indigenous language into this I'm not

302
00:11:23,900 --> 00:11:22,140
for this particular stage I'm hoping

303
00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:23,910
once the PhD is over I can then go on

304
00:11:26,930 --> 00:11:25,530
into that yes because that were just

305
00:11:29,180 --> 00:11:26,940
sort of complicated because there may be

306
00:11:30,770 --> 00:11:29,190
multiple languages that have to get yeah

307
00:11:33,740 --> 00:11:30,780
you Levin diagram would be getting

308
00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:33,750
pretty big yes the PhD has to be about

309
00:11:37,430 --> 00:11:35,610
something really really really tiny and

310
00:11:39,680 --> 00:11:37,440
specific okay and then you write a book

311
00:11:41,930 --> 00:11:39,690
about it yeah and okay once you've

312
00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:41,940
graduated as a PhD linguist with a

313
00:11:44,870 --> 00:11:43,290
master's or what have you got all those

314
00:11:47,210 --> 00:11:44,880
things lots of things afternoon high

315
00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:47,220
distinction I'm sure and and then what

316
00:11:50,510 --> 00:11:49,050
do you do with that I'm a how does one

317
00:11:52,150 --> 00:11:50,520
get employment in that obviously I'm

318
00:11:54,860 --> 00:11:52,160
thinking you could work for a dictionary

319
00:11:56,750 --> 00:11:54,870
and and then that's in my little small

320
00:11:58,160 --> 00:11:56,760
eight brain runs out of ideas but

321
00:12:00,080 --> 00:11:58,170
there's published a whole world of

322
00:12:00,380 --> 00:12:00,090
things a linguist can do tell us what

323
00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:00,390
they are

324
00:12:05,030 --> 00:12:03,450
well lots of us go into academia so we

325
00:12:06,410 --> 00:12:05,040
stay in the university or we teach and

326
00:12:08,210 --> 00:12:06,420
we do research and all that sort of

327
00:12:09,980 --> 00:12:08,220
thing some people go into government

328
00:12:12,260 --> 00:12:09,990
work looking at language policy

329
00:12:14,690 --> 00:12:12,270
particular education policy like when

330
00:12:16,780 --> 00:12:14,700
you're looking at remember the big

331
00:12:19,190 --> 00:12:16,790
a little while ago about teaching

332
00:12:20,660 --> 00:12:19,200
Aboriginal kids only English in school

333
00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:20,670
and refusing to teach them in their own

334
00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:25,050
languages mm-hmm that a racist thing or

335
00:12:27,860 --> 00:12:26,370
was that a practical thing like they

336
00:12:29,450 --> 00:12:27,870
couldn't find anyone that could do both

337
00:12:32,420 --> 00:12:29,460
what were they what was their argument

338
00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:32,430
for that I think their argument was that

339
00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:34,130
English is a more important language

340
00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:37,410
overall but there was also any resources

341
00:12:42,620 --> 00:12:40,410
I guess you could say but but if they're

342
00:12:44,060 --> 00:12:42,630
in their own communities yeah and then

343
00:12:45,980 --> 00:12:44,070
you've got the whole element of culture

344
00:12:47,740 --> 00:12:45,990
because obviously for Aboriginal people

345
00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:47,750
there's this really close link between

346
00:12:53,630 --> 00:12:51,810
people land country and language and if

347
00:12:55,430 --> 00:12:53,640
you deprive them of their language then

348
00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:55,440
you've disrupted that you've disrupted

349
00:12:58,670 --> 00:12:57,090
that cultural connection they've got and

350
00:13:00,470 --> 00:12:58,680
so that's something we need to respect

351
00:13:01,790 --> 00:13:00,480
as we keep going as well and so that's

352
00:13:03,530 --> 00:13:01,800
another thing that linguists are doing

353
00:13:05,420 --> 00:13:03,540
is actually trying to keep these

354
00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:05,430
languages alive trying to document them

355
00:13:09,170 --> 00:13:07,530
before they die out because so many

356
00:13:10,730 --> 00:13:09,180
indigenous languages are disappearing I

357
00:13:12,500 --> 00:13:10,740
was only speaking yesterday that

358
00:13:13,700 --> 00:13:12,510
indigenous language is that how many we

359
00:13:15,020 --> 00:13:13,710
lost and so we don't know because

360
00:13:17,510 --> 00:13:15,030
they're lost so we don't know what's fun

361
00:13:19,490 --> 00:13:17,520
we've lost but a language construction I

362
00:13:20,630 --> 00:13:19,500
kind of like in indigenous languages I

363
00:13:22,580 --> 00:13:20,640
don't know if it's common to all of them

364
00:13:25,550 --> 00:13:22,590
is that you just do a plural by saying

365
00:13:27,560 --> 00:13:25,560
the word twice so it crow is vulgar many

366
00:13:28,730 --> 00:13:27,570
crows is wagga wagga that that's just a

367
00:13:30,350 --> 00:13:28,740
great idea I mean yeah you don't get

368
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:30,360
specific with how many but you know it's

369
00:13:34,580 --> 00:13:33,210
more than one yeah that's that is really

370
00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:34,590
interesting I couldn't tell you off the

371
00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:35,970
top of my head how many Australian

372
00:13:39,140 --> 00:13:37,410
languages do it but yeah it's definitely

373
00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:39,150
a thing yeah because I've never heard

374
00:13:41,780 --> 00:13:40,170
that anywhere else in the world I mean

375
00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:41,790
probably has been used elsewhere but

376
00:13:46,190 --> 00:13:44,850
it's not a bad idea yes it's um there

377
00:13:48,050 --> 00:13:46,200
are lots of ways that Aboriginal

378
00:13:50,420 --> 00:13:48,060
languages are actually more complex and

379
00:13:52,820 --> 00:13:50,430
more interesting than English which is a

380
00:13:54,860 --> 00:13:52,830
bit of people who are monolingual

381
00:13:56,180 --> 00:13:54,870
English speakers tend to think that they

382
00:13:58,190 --> 00:13:56,190
speak the most sophisticated language

383
00:13:59,390 --> 00:13:58,200
but there's one really cool thing that

384
00:14:00,860 --> 00:13:59,400
you can do in a lot of Australian

385
00:14:03,710 --> 00:14:00,870
languages that you can't do in English

386
00:14:06,140 --> 00:14:03,720
is that if you say we as in the pronoun

387
00:14:09,350 --> 00:14:06,150
you have choices that mean we all of us

388
00:14:10,940 --> 00:14:09,360
or we all of us except you ah so if

389
00:14:13,630 --> 00:14:10,950
someone's getting in trouble look yeah

390
00:14:17,060 --> 00:14:13,640
that's a great way to do it yeah yeah

391
00:14:19,460 --> 00:14:17,070
and people go on about the is the

392
00:14:21,410 --> 00:14:19,470
romantic languages or the where it's

393
00:14:23,660 --> 00:14:21,420
Latin Spanish French those I'm sorry not

394
00:14:25,970 --> 00:14:23,670
Latin that's the dead language yeah

395
00:14:27,470 --> 00:14:25,980
French Spanish and everything um those

396
00:14:28,850 --> 00:14:27,480
loves languages are just as good

397
00:14:30,350 --> 00:14:28,860
descriptively as in

398
00:14:31,850 --> 00:14:30,360
is there anything they do better or not

399
00:14:35,420 --> 00:14:31,860
or as English got an edge because we've

400
00:14:37,010 --> 00:14:35,430
stolen stuff from everybody I don't know

401
00:14:39,410 --> 00:14:37,020
about better they're probably a little

402
00:14:40,670 --> 00:14:39,420
bit easier to pick up in terms of

403
00:14:41,990 --> 00:14:40,680
remembering what's regular and what

404
00:14:44,300 --> 00:14:42,000
isn't because English is made up mostly

405
00:14:45,740 --> 00:14:44,310
of exceptions okay and that gets really

406
00:14:48,470 --> 00:14:45,750
difficult for people who are learning it

407
00:14:50,300 --> 00:14:48,480
as a second language there isn't really

408
00:14:52,460 --> 00:14:50,310
anything that a particular language does

409
00:14:54,140 --> 00:14:52,470
better than any other sort of so all

410
00:14:55,550 --> 00:14:54,150
languages are going to do everything you

411
00:14:56,750 --> 00:14:55,560
need in order to communicate and they

412
00:14:58,760 --> 00:14:56,760
just do it slightly differently

413
00:15:00,350 --> 00:14:58,770
so you've got all these people we've got

414
00:15:02,570 --> 00:15:00,360
economists putting out articles about

415
00:15:04,370 --> 00:15:02,580
languages the inverted commas don't have

416
00:15:06,140 --> 00:15:04,380
a past tense or don't have a future

417
00:15:08,230 --> 00:15:06,150
tense and how people who speak those

418
00:15:11,450 --> 00:15:08,240
languages are no good at saving money

419
00:15:13,250 --> 00:15:11,460
and it's just that's so look the

420
00:15:14,630 --> 00:15:13,260
economists should learn to subtract for

421
00:15:16,340 --> 00:15:14,640
start they just think that if something

422
00:15:17,690 --> 00:15:16,350
goes wrong oh that's gonna cost this

423
00:15:20,060 --> 00:15:17,700
much and everything just goes up you

424
00:15:22,100 --> 00:15:20,070
don't take away stuff akan economists

425
00:15:24,290 --> 00:15:22,110
must learn to subtract yeah

426
00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:24,300
I think yes economists must learn to

427
00:15:31,010 --> 00:15:27,570
also just do economics I think yeah yeah

428
00:15:33,950 --> 00:15:31,020
it's so many issues with that kind of

429
00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:33,960
thinking but one of the big ones is just

430
00:15:38,420 --> 00:15:35,490
because the definition of tense is that

431
00:15:39,890 --> 00:15:38,430
it's marked on a verb so you can say

432
00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:39,900
they don't have a part of a future tense

433
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:41,250
that's just because they're expressing

434
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:42,570
it in some other way it's not that it's

435
00:15:45,530 --> 00:15:44,010
not there it's just that it's not on

436
00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:45,540
your verb so there's an example of the

437
00:15:48,820 --> 00:15:46,890
dunning-kruger effect we've got

438
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:48,830
economists cutting your grass

439
00:15:53,710 --> 00:15:50,610
linguistically is that what's going on

440
00:15:56,210 --> 00:15:53,720
there dunning-kruger absolutely it's

441
00:15:58,190 --> 00:15:56,220
something that we come up fairly calm

442
00:16:00,680 --> 00:15:58,200
come up with fairly commonly or come up

443
00:16:03,230 --> 00:16:00,690
against fairly commonly because everyone

444
00:16:05,030 --> 00:16:03,240
can talk everyone speaks the language so

445
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:05,040
everyone's confident that they know just

446
00:16:09,830 --> 00:16:07,770
as much about this as we do and well for

447
00:16:10,700 --> 00:16:09,840
a sociolinguists like me I love to hear

448
00:16:12,500 --> 00:16:10,710
what other people have to say about

449
00:16:14,810 --> 00:16:12,510
language because I'm most interested in

450
00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:14,820
how other people perceive it mm-hmm

451
00:16:19,070 --> 00:16:16,170
rather than just what it looks like

452
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:19,080
taken away from everything else what's

453
00:16:23,210 --> 00:16:20,730
the oldest spoken language that we've

454
00:16:24,740 --> 00:16:23,220
got any record of it would we have be

455
00:16:26,660 --> 00:16:24,750
able to have a go at speaking Sumerian

456
00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:26,670
for example it would be ballad what that

457
00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:28,170
would have sounded like at all oh I

458
00:16:31,730 --> 00:16:30,210
don't actually know what the earlier

459
00:16:33,260 --> 00:16:31,740
recording one is we do have entire

460
00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:33,270
fields historical linguistics looks

461
00:16:36,950 --> 00:16:35,130
exactly this kind of thing trying to

462
00:16:39,710 --> 00:16:36,960
trace things back so I know that we've

463
00:16:41,780 --> 00:16:39,720
gone back to we've got records going

464
00:16:42,500 --> 00:16:41,790
back as far as whatever the languages

465
00:16:45,439 --> 00:16:42,510
that I don't remember

466
00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:45,449
or that I've never learned okay but

467
00:16:49,519 --> 00:16:47,370
because we know things about how

468
00:16:51,110 --> 00:16:49,529
languages change over time how sounds

469
00:16:52,730 --> 00:16:51,120
tend to change and how grammar tends to

470
00:16:54,620 --> 00:16:52,740
change we can kind of take what we've

471
00:16:55,639 --> 00:16:54,630
got and work backwards so what linguists

472
00:16:58,220 --> 00:16:55,649
have done is they've tried to

473
00:17:00,110 --> 00:16:58,230
reconstruct this language that languages

474
00:17:03,050 --> 00:17:00,120
have come from and we call those proto

475
00:17:06,020 --> 00:17:03,060
to languages yeah that's great

476
00:17:07,789 --> 00:17:06,030
yeah I'm fascinated by the Japanese

477
00:17:10,069 --> 00:17:07,799
language just the way their construction

478
00:17:12,199 --> 00:17:10,079
is just out of the park I can't get my

479
00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:12,209
brain around it at all but as I said a

480
00:17:15,140 --> 00:17:13,650
small light brain what is the language

481
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:15,150
that fascinates you is there one that

482
00:17:19,460 --> 00:17:16,410
you know you might not necessarily study

483
00:17:21,020 --> 00:17:19,470
big oh man that is just under the table

484
00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:21,030
that language it's like what's going on

485
00:17:24,770 --> 00:17:22,890
there Oh interesting

486
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:24,780
I actually think I'd really like to

487
00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:28,290
learn more of Chinese of Mandarin or

488
00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:30,570
Cantonese because I find languages with

489
00:17:34,010 --> 00:17:32,130
tones and them to be really interesting

490
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:34,020
where you have we changed the pitch and

491
00:17:39,590 --> 00:17:37,410
that actually changes the sound means

492
00:17:43,070 --> 00:17:39,600
I've been trying to say in the morning

493
00:17:44,780 --> 00:17:43,080
in Cantonese it's it's a song but I'm

494
00:17:46,340 --> 00:17:44,790
that that's what it looks like that's

495
00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:46,350
what it sounds like but I'm hitting all

496
00:17:49,820 --> 00:17:48,450
the wrong bits and so I would say that

497
00:17:51,140 --> 00:17:49,830
to someone and they would have no they

498
00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:51,150
wouldn't even know what one of the words

499
00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:53,130
was because I'm not hitting it yeah yeah

500
00:17:58,250 --> 00:17:56,490
it's I'm so so bad at tones I'm

501
00:17:59,480 --> 00:17:58,260
constantly saying to my students did I

502
00:18:01,130 --> 00:17:59,490
get your name right did I get that right

503
00:18:04,250 --> 00:18:01,140
and they go yeah it's fine it wasn't

504
00:18:05,870 --> 00:18:04,260
fine they're just being nice yes I look

505
00:18:08,539 --> 00:18:05,880
up at the public with Jobe in amou I'm

506
00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:08,549
like I have to think a cow at the end of

507
00:18:12,380 --> 00:18:10,530
the name so it's oh it's been a it's

508
00:18:13,580 --> 00:18:12,390
been a moon like that and light and I'll

509
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:13,590
get then I'll get it wrong and great

510
00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:14,730
I've remembered the wrong pronunciation

511
00:18:18,950 --> 00:18:16,890
and all that kind of thing and I know

512
00:18:19,940 --> 00:18:18,960
and because in my business names is

513
00:18:22,010 --> 00:18:19,950
everything you've got to actually

514
00:18:25,970 --> 00:18:22,020
pronounce names right and I get it wrong

515
00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:25,980
so many times yes I'm sure I'm listening

516
00:18:30,289 --> 00:18:27,450
it's just the recording and the memory

517
00:18:32,150 --> 00:18:30,299
of its problem yeah yeah and then

518
00:18:34,340 --> 00:18:32,160
minutes in a different language that's a

519
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:34,350
totally different thing yeah where can

520
00:18:37,190 --> 00:18:35,970
we find out more about your PhD what

521
00:18:40,580 --> 00:18:37,200
you're studying maybe we could finish

522
00:18:42,650 --> 00:18:40,590
the PhD for you don't clicker I'm good

523
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:42,660
for lazy ten minutes I can help ya zu

524
00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:44,610
crowdsource a PhD if everyone takes a

525
00:18:49,700 --> 00:18:46,650
paragraph we'll be good

526
00:18:53,539 --> 00:18:49,710
no you can find me on Twitter at Murray

527
00:18:56,090 --> 00:18:53,549
Lee a but a you can find my website at

528
00:18:57,860 --> 00:18:56,100
Lee Murray don't ID today you

529
00:18:59,000 --> 00:18:57,870
cool and so next time when you're

530
00:19:00,230 --> 00:18:59,010
talking to someone see how much you're

531
00:19:02,180 --> 00:19:00,240
accommodating to their language

532
00:19:03,740 --> 00:19:02,190
particularly if it's a first date and

533
00:19:06,140 --> 00:19:03,750
remember what are we not to do don't

534
00:19:07,250 --> 00:19:06,150
don't attempt their accent Chris you

535
00:19:12,169 --> 00:19:07,260
you're thoughtful think you're mocking

536
00:19:14,270 --> 00:19:12,179
though look okay I'm talking to someone

537
00:19:15,890 --> 00:19:14,280
now because dr. Pamela gay and I love

538
00:19:17,570 --> 00:19:15,900
the fact that the hosts for one your

539
00:19:19,580 --> 00:19:17,580
podcast is Fraser Krang because I just

540
00:19:21,140 --> 00:19:19,590
in Frayser of the show and I think if

541
00:19:22,490 --> 00:19:21,150
that guy's sitting there and I know it's

542
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:22,500
not a good image to have but that's what

543
00:19:25,730 --> 00:19:24,090
I think when he says that you know well

544
00:19:27,350 --> 00:19:25,740
and he's had no end of problems because

545
00:19:29,750 --> 00:19:27,360
he can't have a Wikipedia page because

546
00:19:32,360 --> 00:19:29,760
it keeps getting marked as fictional and

547
00:19:35,330 --> 00:19:32,370
withdrawn because he's not according to

548
00:19:36,799 --> 00:19:35,340
the internet a real person because I'm

549
00:19:38,659 --> 00:19:36,809
pretty much a fictional character I have

550
00:19:41,419 --> 00:19:38,669
no problem but he has someone else who

551
00:19:43,070 --> 00:19:41,429
has a fictional name um exactly and it's

552
00:19:44,750 --> 00:19:43,080
just like this guy doing awesome science

553
00:19:46,549 --> 00:19:44,760
in Canada just can't get a break

554
00:19:48,710 --> 00:19:46,559
and it goes in the background you can

555
00:19:51,740 --> 00:19:48,720
hear everyone talking because it's been

556
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:51,750
a pretty successful skeptic on 2018 how

557
00:19:56,180 --> 00:19:52,890
did your talks go

558
00:19:58,700 --> 00:19:56,190
I think they went well the audience told

559
00:20:02,240 --> 00:19:58,710
me they went well I it was one of these

560
00:20:05,029 --> 00:20:02,250
things where the world is on fire and I

561
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:05,039
tried to take on the nose some of the

562
00:20:10,310 --> 00:20:08,490
issues that is is out there right now

563
00:20:13,820 --> 00:20:10,320
the issues that we're dealing with with

564
00:20:15,799 --> 00:20:13,830
climate change with unconscious bias in

565
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:15,809
the work force and with two different

566
00:20:20,390 --> 00:20:18,210
talking slots we could hit a whole lot

567
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:20,400
of dark topics but I think I managed to

568
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:22,650
end each of them with a bit of joy and

569
00:20:26,779 --> 00:20:24,690
did you catch women's woo with a Trish

570
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:26,789
am i there she was talking about Gwyneth

571
00:20:30,260 --> 00:20:28,530
Paltrow and her sort of stuff and that

572
00:20:32,390 --> 00:20:30,270
kind of thing I mean yeah it's like

573
00:20:35,330 --> 00:20:32,400
that's that's really obvious marketing

574
00:20:36,620 --> 00:20:35,340
and based on a self-esteem isn't it

575
00:20:39,110 --> 00:20:36,630
really

576
00:20:41,690 --> 00:20:39,120
yeah and and I hate to say it's not just

577
00:20:45,790 --> 00:20:41,700
oh yeah that goes to men as well it goes

578
00:20:50,030 --> 00:20:45,800
to everybody it the fact that we use

579
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:50,040
self-esteem to advertise we are saying

580
00:20:55,370 --> 00:20:51,690
there is something wrong with you that

581
00:20:58,670 --> 00:20:55,380
this product will fix that kind of hurts

582
00:21:01,160 --> 00:20:58,680
my soul that instead of saying hey do

583
00:21:03,950 --> 00:21:01,170
this because it brings pleasure because

584
00:21:06,470 --> 00:21:03,960
it brings happiness do this because

585
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:06,480
there's something wrong with you that to

586
00:21:11,570 --> 00:21:09,570
me is just a way of making our society

587
00:21:13,340 --> 00:21:11,580
feel worse about themselves and

588
00:21:17,150 --> 00:21:13,350
manipulating them with it because it is

589
00:21:19,940 --> 00:21:17,160
yeah it it's too much of history human

590
00:21:21,950 --> 00:21:19,950
history is defined by people subject

591
00:21:24,380 --> 00:21:21,960
putting people into subjugation by

592
00:21:26,570 --> 00:21:24,390
saying there is something wrong with you

593
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:26,580
your skin is too dark you have sinned

594
00:21:34,070 --> 00:21:30,450
too much from religion classism to color

595
00:21:36,500 --> 00:21:34,080
we constantly find new ways to to say

596
00:21:38,570 --> 00:21:36,510
I'm better than you and sell products so

597
00:21:40,250 --> 00:21:38,580
that you can pretend to be as good as me

598
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:40,260
look panelists be another reason you got

599
00:21:43,610 --> 00:21:41,490
rid of the television out of your house

600
00:21:45,020 --> 00:21:43,620
because the reality TV is completely

601
00:21:47,150 --> 00:21:45,030
based on that you kick someone off the

602
00:21:50,060 --> 00:21:47,160
island you you're picking on people it's

603
00:21:51,500 --> 00:21:50,070
basically all about that and and this is

604
00:21:53,780 --> 00:21:51,510
where we have to be careful to separate

605
00:21:57,140 --> 00:21:53,790
between reality TV like Big Brother and

606
00:21:59,150 --> 00:21:57,150
survivor and the really good competitive

607
00:22:00,770 --> 00:21:59,160
shows that are out there there there

608
00:22:03,890 --> 00:22:00,780
have been some for costuming there have

609
00:22:07,340 --> 00:22:03,900
been some and and when you offer someone

610
00:22:10,130 --> 00:22:07,350
a career at the end of it based on how

611
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:10,140
well they were able to accomplish tasks

612
00:22:14,660 --> 00:22:12,690
when the playing field was leveled I can

613
00:22:17,990 --> 00:22:14,670
totally get behind watching an hour's

614
00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:18,000
worth of creativity but an hour's worth

615
00:22:22,070 --> 00:22:20,370
of people demeaning each other to see

616
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:22,080
how they can mentally manipulate each

617
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:22,650
other

618
00:22:27,650 --> 00:22:25,530
life's too short certainly yeah and and

619
00:22:29,570 --> 00:22:27,660
TV look I got rid of it as well because

620
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:29,580
and also we're talking about the news

621
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:30,810
cycle you're getting hammered by the

622
00:22:34,100 --> 00:22:32,490
news cycle all the time and the news

623
00:22:34,850 --> 00:22:34,110
isn't changing its changing if something

624
00:22:36,410 --> 00:22:34,860
bad has happened

625
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:36,420
you want to know about it but you don't

626
00:22:39,950 --> 00:22:38,730
need to know about the intimate damage

627
00:22:41,090 --> 00:22:39,960
that's been done to the people's lives

628
00:22:41,890 --> 00:22:41,100
in the background because you know

629
00:22:43,660 --> 00:22:41,900
that's going to happen

630
00:22:46,450 --> 00:22:43,670
anyway and they go into details of it

631
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:46,460
and makes it very hurtful and we're in a

632
00:22:51,790 --> 00:22:49,250
world where it's so easy to not just

633
00:22:53,590 --> 00:22:51,800
talk about the house fire down the

634
00:22:56,430 --> 00:22:53,600
street but to talk about the house fires

635
00:22:59,860 --> 00:22:56,440
on the other side of the nation and

636
00:23:02,080 --> 00:22:59,870
while I greatly appreciate how the

637
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:02,090
Internet has made the world so small I'm

638
00:23:05,710 --> 00:23:04,010
I'm an American from the Midwest

639
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:05,720
currently sitting in Sydney Australia

640
00:23:11,890 --> 00:23:09,530
and I couldn't live the life I live if

641
00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:11,900
the internet didn't shrink the spaces

642
00:23:17,950 --> 00:23:16,370
between us but at the same time we live

643
00:23:21,550 --> 00:23:17,960
in a world that is so much safer than

644
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:21,560
it's ever been on average but the amount

645
00:23:29,260 --> 00:23:24,050
that we hear about murder and rape and

646
00:23:30,820 --> 00:23:29,270
death it's it's too much and we do need

647
00:23:32,380 --> 00:23:30,830
to be aware of what's going on we do

648
00:23:35,350 --> 00:23:32,390
need to be aware of their free gia

649
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:35,360
crisis we do need to be aware of what's

650
00:23:42,490 --> 00:23:38,210
going on with the various religious wars

651
00:23:44,470 --> 00:23:42,500
and genocides and all these problems but

652
00:23:46,690 --> 00:23:44,480
we don't need to be aware all the time

653
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:46,700
look we'll just finish up with UFOs

654
00:23:49,330 --> 00:23:47,930
because that's how I started when we

655
00:23:51,340 --> 00:23:49,340
bumped it on Friday night and I do

656
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:51,350
recommend that UFOs reframing the debate

657
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:53,210
I looked up who it was it was Richard

658
00:23:56,020 --> 00:23:54,290
someone there's a whole bunch of essays

659
00:23:57,460 --> 00:23:56,030
much of which you would probably dismiss

660
00:23:58,990 --> 00:23:57,470
a scientific hooey but they're

661
00:24:01,150 --> 00:23:59,000
interesting thought experiments okay

662
00:24:02,860 --> 00:24:01,160
yeah and and so when people come at you

663
00:24:05,230 --> 00:24:02,870
from all angles about UFOs over the

664
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:05,240
years and alien life and that kind of

665
00:24:09,580 --> 00:24:07,250
thing and what is your good answer to

666
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:09,590
them because if I go I'll be able yeah

667
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:11,210
sure you say you can't travel faster

668
00:24:14,590 --> 00:24:12,530
than light but if you go in between the

669
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:14,600
spaces and stuff like that and you've

670
00:24:23,530 --> 00:24:18,610
got to say well the spaces of what yeah

671
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:23,540
at the end of the day I we are able to

672
00:24:29,740 --> 00:24:27,050
detect so many different existing

673
00:24:31,570 --> 00:24:29,750
satellites so many existing asteroids

674
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:31,580
because of how they block out the

675
00:24:38,890 --> 00:24:35,210
background sunlight and these are rare

676
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:38,900
events and we haven't seen any of these

677
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:43,250
that didn't match something known with

678
00:24:47,290 --> 00:24:45,650
all of our explorations sunlight is

679
00:24:49,630 --> 00:24:47,300
gonna catch off of one of these suckers

680
00:24:51,890 --> 00:24:49,640
and every time we see something we can

681
00:24:55,590 --> 00:24:51,900
figure out what it is

682
00:24:57,330 --> 00:24:55,600
now space is vast and it is a great

683
00:25:00,539 --> 00:24:57,340
paradox why we haven't found an

684
00:25:03,270 --> 00:25:00,549
intelligent life out there yet why I is

685
00:25:06,419 --> 00:25:03,280
it that we don't see colonization why is

686
00:25:08,130 --> 00:25:06,429
that we don't see dyson sphere's this is

687
00:25:10,140 --> 00:25:08,140
one of the great scientific mysteries

688
00:25:11,610 --> 00:25:10,150
because if there were scientists if

689
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:11,620
there were scientifically advanced

690
00:25:17,220 --> 00:25:15,490
civilizations out there we're fairly

691
00:25:21,150 --> 00:25:17,230
young there should be older ones out

692
00:25:23,250 --> 00:25:21,160
there now as a scientist if my science

693
00:25:25,049 --> 00:25:23,260
tells me there should be aliens and I

694
00:25:27,180 --> 00:25:25,059
don't detect aliens and I have to say

695
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:27,190
this is a paradox and a problem I'm

696
00:25:33,810 --> 00:25:31,330
probably not keeping aliens secret know

697
00:25:34,980 --> 00:25:33,820
our military constantly surprises us

698
00:25:36,919 --> 00:25:34,990
with the things they built in a

699
00:25:41,730 --> 00:25:36,929
warehouse that no one was looking in and

700
00:25:43,950 --> 00:25:41,740
anytime someone talks about a faux I

701
00:25:47,070 --> 00:25:43,960
bring up examples of things like for a

702
00:25:49,919 --> 00:25:47,080
while there was a triangular dirigible

703
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:49,929
that was used as a heavy lift vehicle it

704
00:25:55,980 --> 00:25:53,770
moved on paths that took it over mostly

705
00:25:58,230 --> 00:25:55,990
empty farmlands but it regularly got

706
00:25:59,970 --> 00:25:58,240
spotted and it was an investigative

707
00:26:03,620 --> 00:25:59,980
reporter that was able to piece together

708
00:26:06,299 --> 00:26:03,630
oh wait here are these declassified

709
00:26:09,870 --> 00:26:06,309
competitive plans to get funding to do a

710
00:26:11,700 --> 00:26:09,880
heavy lift dirigible design what if and

711
00:26:15,690 --> 00:26:11,710
oh yeah that's exactly what this has

712
00:26:16,890 --> 00:26:15,700
been and so all these triangular UFOs

713
00:26:20,750 --> 00:26:16,900
that had been spotted

714
00:26:23,909 --> 00:26:20,760
instead of being high moving highly

715
00:26:29,190 --> 00:26:23,919
maneuverable high altitude vehicles were

716
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:29,200
very low slow close moving dirigible

717
00:26:33,210 --> 00:26:31,570
well see it's it's always something like

718
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:33,220
that isn't it usually unfortunately yeah

719
00:26:38,070 --> 00:26:36,250
it usually is and it turns out that that

720
00:26:40,710 --> 00:26:38,080
in some ways is far more fascinating

721
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:40,720
than UFOs how do you guys get on with

722
00:26:43,799 --> 00:26:42,010
SETI because you're all competing for

723
00:26:45,210 --> 00:26:43,809
similar funding now dude you like chuck

724
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:45,220
rocks over the fence that Seth or

725
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:46,210
whatever his name is everyone's like

726
00:26:51,330 --> 00:26:49,690
mate that's not really strong to me have

727
00:26:53,250 --> 00:26:51,340
a lot of really good friends over at the

728
00:26:55,020 --> 00:26:53,260
SETI Institute in Mountain View and

729
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:55,030
they're doing some really good science

730
00:26:59,400 --> 00:26:57,610
the thing we have to remember is

731
00:27:03,060 --> 00:26:59,410
the the study folks search for

732
00:27:05,550 --> 00:27:03,070
extraterrestrial intelligence folks I or

733
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:05,560
search for extraterrestrial intelligent

734
00:27:12,990 --> 00:27:09,730
Institute I they are actually trying to

735
00:27:16,110 --> 00:27:13,000
define what is the evidence in an

736
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:16,120
atmosphere of an atmosphere that is out

737
00:27:21,390 --> 00:27:18,970
of equilibrium and there's evidence of

738
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:21,400
bacterial life so is the methane on Mars

739
00:27:27,500 --> 00:27:25,050
an indicator of bacteria is the earth

740
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:27,510
chemistry at the surface of Titan

741
00:27:32,250 --> 00:27:30,730
evidence of life on Titan it's the

742
00:27:35,340 --> 00:27:32,260
people working at the SETI Institute

743
00:27:40,830 --> 00:27:35,350
that are doing the detailed astrobiology

744
00:27:43,500 --> 00:27:40,840
research that are studying a high acid

745
00:27:45,540 --> 00:27:43,510
high temperature cold temperature these

746
00:27:47,370 --> 00:27:45,550
extreme environments on earth to try and

747
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:47,380
understand what are all the forms life

748
00:27:53,340 --> 00:27:50,170
can come in there's amazing science to

749
00:27:55,470 --> 00:27:53,350
be done in the lead up to figuring out

750
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:55,480
is it safe for us to go to other worlds

751
00:27:58,830 --> 00:27:56,770
without fearing that we're gonna be

752
00:28:01,920 --> 00:27:58,840
genocide or whatever might be there is

753
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:01,930
it possible that there's life in more

754
00:28:05,610 --> 00:28:03,250
extreme environments than we ever

755
00:28:08,670 --> 00:28:05,620
imagined study institutes figuring out

756
00:28:10,650 --> 00:28:08,680
all of this and you know if they're

757
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:10,660
using radio telescopes now and then to

758
00:28:16,740 --> 00:28:13,650
piggyback on the back of scientists to

759
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:16,750
look for radio signals as well I'm good

760
00:28:19,770 --> 00:28:17,290
with that

761
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:19,780
I heard you're your companion at Frasier

762
00:28:25,500 --> 00:28:22,090
Crane on a UFO podcast a few weeks back

763
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:25,510
and that was a again mirror image that

764
00:28:29,340 --> 00:28:27,610
we've got the kooky skeptic Don and he's

765
00:28:30,900 --> 00:28:29,350
gonna come on he's not gonna believe me

766
00:28:32,460 --> 00:28:30,910
there's Stephon every polite to him and

767
00:28:34,590 --> 00:28:32,470
everything but he was like treated like

768
00:28:36,930 --> 00:28:34,600
you know he was the outlier because he

769
00:28:38,550 --> 00:28:36,940
wasn't in on the on the UFO stuff and it

770
00:28:39,930 --> 00:28:38,560
was fascinating to hear that and he was

771
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:39,940
rational and they were a rational with

772
00:28:44,970 --> 00:28:41,650
each other but there was just no meeting

773
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:44,980
in the middle man it's when we can have

774
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:47,170
rational dialogues that I have hope for

775
00:28:51,930 --> 00:28:50,050
the future and and the thing about that

776
00:28:53,940 --> 00:28:51,940
is there's always the people listening

777
00:28:56,580 --> 00:28:53,950
who are on the fence and when they can

778
00:28:59,910 --> 00:28:56,590
hear a rational dialogue between people

779
00:29:02,780 --> 00:28:59,920
who are fervent believers in one side of

780
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:02,790
an unproven argument or another we can't

781
00:29:06,540 --> 00:29:05,050
definitively prove that we haven't been

782
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:06,550
visited by aliens and we can't

783
00:29:10,290 --> 00:29:08,530
definitively prove that we have

784
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:10,300
this is a question of belief it's a

785
00:29:14,550 --> 00:29:12,250
question of how do you look at the

786
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:14,560
probabilities and decide what has or

787
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:16,330
hasn't happened and who you choose to

788
00:29:23,490 --> 00:29:20,770
believe and it's the people on the fence

789
00:29:24,990 --> 00:29:23,500
who can listen to this and decide you

790
00:29:26,820 --> 00:29:25,000
know I'm gonna listen to the

791
00:29:28,830 --> 00:29:26,830
psychologists when I hear about these

792
00:29:31,110 --> 00:29:28,840
people talking about alien deductions

793
00:29:32,790 --> 00:29:31,120
and understand this is probably someone

794
00:29:35,790 --> 00:29:32,800
that has something terrible happened but

795
00:29:38,220 --> 00:29:35,800
it wasn't aliens and I'm gonna help them

796
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:38,230
get help instead of encouraging them to

797
00:29:43,620 --> 00:29:41,890
join all of these alien societies well

798
00:29:45,300 --> 00:29:43,630
thank you very much for coming you of

799
00:29:46,710 --> 00:29:45,310
some of the best private conversations

800
00:29:48,540 --> 00:29:46,720
I've had this weekend of being with you

801
00:29:50,490 --> 00:29:48,550
dr. Pamela Gay and please come back to

802
00:29:51,930 --> 00:29:50,500
Australia again and say later Fraser

803
00:29:55,140 --> 00:29:51,940
crane for me because he did a great job

804
00:29:56,700 --> 00:29:55,150
on that UFO show thank you so much it's

805
00:29:58,290 --> 00:29:56,710
always a pleasure being here and always

806
00:30:00,660 --> 00:29:58,300
a pleasure being interviewed by you like

807
00:30:02,310 --> 00:30:00,670
my suit I love your suit you actually an

808
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:02,320
iridescent suit that was better though

809
00:30:06,030 --> 00:30:04,210
I'm gonna say your iridescent was better

810
00:30:08,850 --> 00:30:06,040
I'll work harder next time thank you all

811
00:30:10,050 --> 00:30:08,860
right Aiko's backstage you go and the

812
00:30:11,550 --> 00:30:10,060
people who's making the whole thing go

813
00:30:13,650 --> 00:30:11,560
look how's it going how's it smoothly

814
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:13,660
going there you catch me halfway through

815
00:30:17,370 --> 00:30:15,850
singing crowded house but otherwise

816
00:30:19,230 --> 00:30:17,380
everything's going well this is it quiet

817
00:30:20,850 --> 00:30:19,240
as it's been all day yes of course good

818
00:30:23,180 --> 00:30:20,860
area runs out the reading lamingtons and

819
00:30:26,490 --> 00:30:23,190
Tim Tams yes sir I get to troubleshoot

820
00:30:28,590 --> 00:30:26,500
clickers and Max and Keynote so they all

821
00:30:30,030 --> 00:30:28,600
run stuff and has it been much trouble

822
00:30:32,070 --> 00:30:30,040
if people tried to load stuff and it's

823
00:30:34,230 --> 00:30:32,080
gone arm that the USB doesn't quite work

824
00:30:35,550 --> 00:30:34,240
well a couple of minor things but to be

825
00:30:37,830 --> 00:30:35,560
honest this is probably the smoothness

826
00:30:39,930 --> 00:30:37,840
that we run wow this is backstage that's

827
00:30:40,980 --> 00:30:39,940
what we want to hear keep going I'll let

828
00:30:42,900 --> 00:30:40,990
you get back to your crowded house

829
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:42,910
singing and how come crowded house don't

830
00:30:46,170 --> 00:30:44,530
sing chocolate cake enough that's my

831
00:30:48,060 --> 00:30:46,180
favourites I'm not a big crowded house

832
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:48,070
fan but chocolate cake my favorite song

833
00:30:52,050 --> 00:30:49,570
of theirs and they don't give that song

834
00:30:53,970 --> 00:30:52,060
enough do well you know their way around

835
00:30:56,850 --> 00:30:53,980
that you just play a different song when

836
00:30:59,400 --> 00:30:56,860
you own your device that's true yeah

837
00:31:00,840 --> 00:30:59,410
like like Raj hits Fred I'm too sexy

838
00:31:01,140 --> 00:31:00,850
it's almost the same song as chocolate

839
00:31:03,870 --> 00:31:01,150
cake

840
00:31:05,250 --> 00:31:03,880
sure hey I'll let you get back to doing

841
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:05,260
some character doing some work there

842
00:31:08,910 --> 00:31:07,330
he's working he's an actual work I'm

843
00:31:11,130 --> 00:31:08,920
like many I just wander around mumbling

844
00:31:14,550 --> 00:31:11,140
into a microphone claiming that it's

845
00:31:16,110 --> 00:31:14,560
some sort of work job I have here we go

846
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:16,120
now how did you go yesterday on stage

847
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:18,490
there sir the panel was a fantastic

848
00:31:22,590 --> 00:31:21,130
experience it was really well

849
00:31:23,940 --> 00:31:22,600
yeah it's Brad did a really good job

850
00:31:25,470 --> 00:31:23,950
moderating what can I say a lot of fun

851
00:31:27,060 --> 00:31:25,480
learnt a lot of things too now you on

852
00:31:28,860 --> 00:31:27,070
today again yes that's right I'm just

853
00:31:30,870 --> 00:31:28,870
about to go on stage and give my talk

854
00:31:32,190 --> 00:31:30,880
for the next 30 minutes yeah Wow okay

855
00:31:34,170 --> 00:31:32,200
and what's your topic I haven't looked

856
00:31:38,130 --> 00:31:34,180
it up on my cheat sheet the topic is

857
00:31:39,630 --> 00:31:38,140
what doctors don't know yes okay and

858
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:39,640
what is the one thing you often knew you

859
00:31:43,020 --> 00:31:41,170
did that you don't is there some sort of

860
00:31:45,540 --> 00:31:43,030
breakthrough which should be fantastic

861
00:31:47,100 --> 00:31:45,550
for us to have as a society that we

862
00:31:48,150 --> 00:31:47,110
haven't quite got what's the one thing I

863
00:31:49,620 --> 00:31:48,160
mean it's almost like you'd love to be

864
00:31:51,060 --> 00:31:49,630
psychic but we know that doesn't exist

865
00:31:54,690 --> 00:31:51,070
yeah so what's the thing you'd like that

866
00:31:57,330 --> 00:31:54,700
would really help your job I think if we

867
00:32:00,180 --> 00:31:57,340
could find good meaning meaningful

868
00:32:02,130 --> 00:32:00,190
practical solutions to obesity I think

869
00:32:04,530 --> 00:32:02,140
that would cause massive changes in

870
00:32:05,940 --> 00:32:04,540
public health and it's funny isn't it

871
00:32:08,100 --> 00:32:05,950
that's really not a human biological

872
00:32:10,020 --> 00:32:08,110
solution necessarily often it's a social

873
00:32:11,910 --> 00:32:10,030
political one well sugar tastes really

874
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:11,920
good and that's part of the problem

875
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:13,930
isn't it that's right exactly right and

876
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:15,730
so it's a bit of a struggle and we need

877
00:32:19,830 --> 00:32:17,290
to kind of get more doctors onside with

878
00:32:21,510 --> 00:32:19,840
that I think a lot already are but you

879
00:32:22,590 --> 00:32:21,520
know of course there are breakthroughs

880
00:32:24,270 --> 00:32:22,600
that we're hoping and wishing for

881
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:24,280
particularly in metastatic cancer in

882
00:32:28,380 --> 00:32:26,050
general where and there's so much

883
00:32:30,510 --> 00:32:28,390
research kind of going on there and we

884
00:32:31,770 --> 00:32:30,520
just we just hope all the smart people I

885
00:32:33,390 --> 00:32:31,780
know as a general practitioner you've

886
00:32:35,670 --> 00:32:33,400
got to be polite but it's it's quite

887
00:32:37,950 --> 00:32:35,680
funny when you talk to people and you

888
00:32:39,930 --> 00:32:37,960
find out the story about how they how it

889
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:39,940
all led up to that point often you go

890
00:32:44,130 --> 00:32:42,010
yeah turns out it's not so simple about

891
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:44,140
as going well it happened because you

892
00:32:47,820 --> 00:32:45,970
took this bad decision bad decisions

893
00:32:49,890 --> 00:32:47,830
happened for several other reasons and

894
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:49,900
you learn very quickly I think in

895
00:32:52,950 --> 00:32:51,010
general practice to get out of the blame

896
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:52,960
game and get into there well how do we

897
00:32:57,060 --> 00:32:55,450
fix this game if that is going so if you

898
00:32:58,500 --> 00:32:57,070
can't make general wide sweeping

899
00:32:59,610 --> 00:32:58,510
statements about people without any

900
00:33:02,220 --> 00:32:59,620
evidence what's the point of being a

901
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:02,230
doctor I don't know I'm trying to figure

902
00:33:21,460 --> 00:33:04,210
that out myself actually yeah we go

903
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:24,050
today this dr. Karl Karl Chris must be

904
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:25,650
proud to be skeptic and you can find out

905
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:27,930
more about me at dr. Karl calm and get

906
00:33:49,340 --> 00:33:46,480
[Music]

907
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:49,350
is a story that comes to us from Jane

908
00:33:56,210 --> 00:33:51,330
Hansen writing in The Sunday Telegraph

909
00:34:00,080 --> 00:33:56,220
on the 25th of November 2018 auntie VAX

910
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:00,090
activist charges parents $4,000 for

911
00:34:10,099 --> 00:34:07,410
quote expert reporter for Empire an anti

912
00:34:13,849 --> 00:34:10,109
vaccination activist with no medical

913
00:34:16,460 --> 00:34:13,859
training is charging $4,000 for a quote

914
00:34:18,590 --> 00:34:16,470
expert report and quote to parents in

915
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:18,600
court cases to help parents who do not

916
00:34:23,450 --> 00:34:20,210
want to have their children vaccinated

917
00:34:26,030 --> 00:34:23,460
the Sunday Telegraph can reveal that dr.

918
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:26,040
Judy Y Lehman has been involved in four

919
00:34:30,770 --> 00:34:28,050
separate court cases of estranged

920
00:34:32,810 --> 00:34:30,780
parents where one parent does not wish

921
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:32,820
to vaccinate the children but the other

922
00:34:38,659 --> 00:34:36,090
parent does dr. Wiley man also charges

923
00:34:42,139 --> 00:34:38,669
one hundred and fifty dollars an hour as

924
00:34:43,849 --> 00:34:42,149
an expert witness however her doctorate

925
00:34:45,470 --> 00:34:43,859
was in humanities and was

926
00:34:48,470 --> 00:34:45,480
controversially awarded by the

927
00:34:51,230 --> 00:34:48,480
University of Wollongong in 2016 amid

928
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:51,240
harsh criticism from the scientific and

929
00:34:57,950 --> 00:34:54,290
medical community her thesis argued

930
00:35:00,290 --> 00:34:57,960
vaccination was a conspiracy Australian

931
00:35:02,780 --> 00:35:00,300
Medical Association president dr. Tony

932
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:02,790
Bartone II blasted dr. Wylie man's

933
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:06,210
claims as irresponsible quote it's

934
00:35:11,240 --> 00:35:08,970
disgusting her claims are ridiculous and

935
00:35:13,240 --> 00:35:11,250
like any basis in science or medicine

936
00:35:15,770 --> 00:35:13,250
end quote dr. Barr Toni said

937
00:35:17,890 --> 00:35:15,780
immunologist and president of Friends of

938
00:35:20,990 --> 00:35:17,900
science in medicine professor John Dwyer

939
00:35:22,970 --> 00:35:21,000
said if courts allowed dr. Wiley men to

940
00:35:24,859 --> 00:35:22,980
be an expert witness there was something

941
00:35:26,990 --> 00:35:24,869
wrong with the legal system while

942
00:35:29,290 --> 00:35:27,000
federal health Minister Greg Hunt said

943
00:35:31,670 --> 00:35:29,300
parents needed to listen to quote

944
00:35:34,010 --> 00:35:31,680
undisputed medical advice end quote and

945
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:34,020
dr. Wiley means research was not

946
00:35:39,470 --> 00:35:37,170
credible dr. Walley man was contacted

947
00:35:42,620 --> 00:35:39,480
but declined to answer our specific

948
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:42,630
questions instead defending herself in a

949
00:35:47,190 --> 00:35:44,850
series of emails she claimed the purpose

950
00:35:49,410 --> 00:35:47,200
of this article was to quote

951
00:35:52,079 --> 00:35:49,420
great my work with false and simplistic

952
00:35:54,390 --> 00:35:52,089
allegations about my academic arguments

953
00:35:56,700 --> 00:35:54,400
men quote quote the report you have been

954
00:35:59,849 --> 00:35:56,710
given is only one part of a very

955
00:36:02,099 --> 00:35:59,859
detailed report that was presented in a

956
00:36:04,230 --> 00:36:02,109
court case and it is a fully reference

957
00:36:06,569 --> 00:36:04,240
document the scientific and political

958
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:06,579
arguments that I have presented in court

959
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:08,770
are in support of the public's right to

960
00:36:14,099 --> 00:36:11,410
choose in vaccination end quote she

961
00:36:15,810 --> 00:36:14,109
wrote quote this information needs open

962
00:36:18,270 --> 00:36:15,820
and public debate end quote

963
00:36:20,700 --> 00:36:18,280
she then went on to threaten legal

964
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:20,710
action if the Sunday Telegraph published

965
00:36:25,530 --> 00:36:23,530
a story that included quote simplistic

966
00:36:28,740 --> 00:36:25,540
and misleading statements about my

967
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:28,750
report and quote and accused the paper

968
00:36:43,380 --> 00:36:32,530
of quote incompetence and quote spelt I

969
00:36:45,180 --> 00:36:43,390
in Co MP et aan see and that story comes

970
00:36:48,540 --> 00:36:45,190
to us from Jane Hansen who you will

971
00:36:52,050 --> 00:36:48,550
recall won the inaugural Barry Williams

972
00:36:57,750 --> 00:36:52,060
prize for skeptical journalism just last

973
00:36:59,609 --> 00:36:57,760
month at skeptic on here in Sydney I'll

974
00:37:02,150 --> 00:36:59,619
link to this report in this week's show

975
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:16,050
[Music]

976
00:37:21,550 --> 00:37:19,420
hey fellow skeptics in Medford here with

977
00:37:23,500 --> 00:37:21,560
Celeste reward your friendly host of

978
00:37:25,450 --> 00:37:23,510
starting the strange a podcast that

979
00:37:28,690 --> 00:37:25,460
looks at topics ranging from legends

980
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:28,700
panics and cryptids to myths psychology

981
00:37:32,770 --> 00:37:30,650
and folklore breaking things down and

982
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:32,780
picking things apart as we skeptics do

983
00:37:37,540 --> 00:37:34,970
we bring a few different perspectives on

984
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:37,550
things pleasure for example is a witty

985
00:37:42,010 --> 00:37:39,650
cartoonist and Ben is a brilliant writer

986
00:37:43,720 --> 00:37:42,020
and longtime skeptical investigator we

987
00:37:46,240 --> 00:37:43,730
don't always agree well we have fun

988
00:37:48,460 --> 00:37:46,250
trying and we learn new things join us

989
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:48,470
for new topics every week or two or

990
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:50,810
browse our backlog of evergreen episodes

991
00:37:56,170 --> 00:37:54,050
available on iTunes and all your podcast

992
00:38:02,480 --> 00:37:56,180
feeding troughs squaring the strange

993
00:38:15,900 --> 00:38:07,640
[Music]

994
00:38:17,460 --> 00:38:15,910
which brings us to our section where

995
00:38:20,130 --> 00:38:17,470
we're going to talk about skeptics and

996
00:38:21,660 --> 00:38:20,140
skepticism and I think today maybe we

997
00:38:23,100 --> 00:38:21,670
should put the crash helmets on not to

998
00:38:24,390 --> 00:38:23,110
mop the tinfoil hats because I think

999
00:38:26,250 --> 00:38:24,400
there might be a few of our listeners

1000
00:38:28,860 --> 00:38:26,260
who actually believe in these things

1001
00:38:31,500 --> 00:38:28,870
these chemtrails which are these trails

1002
00:38:33,570 --> 00:38:31,510
left by high-flying jet aircraft you see

1003
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:33,580
them in the sky those long white trials

1004
00:38:37,530 --> 00:38:35,530
and a lot of people do believe that

1005
00:38:39,990 --> 00:38:37,540
they're filled with chemicals biological

1006
00:38:42,030 --> 00:38:40,000
agents and even microchips that become

1007
00:38:43,170 --> 00:38:42,040
embedded in your body and then they

1008
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:43,180
think the government can tell you what

1009
00:38:46,620 --> 00:38:45,490
to think yeah the Chinese government

1010
00:38:48,210 --> 00:38:46,630
apparently controlled the weather to

1011
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:48,220
make the opening of the Beijing Olympics

1012
00:38:51,690 --> 00:38:49,690
dry supposedly you were there weren't

1013
00:38:53,910 --> 00:38:51,700
you something did happen mysteriously on

1014
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:53,920
the day of the opening ceremony that fog

1015
00:38:59,580 --> 00:38:57,130
parted and weird clear skies let's go to

1016
00:39:00,930 --> 00:38:59,590
let's go to our our skeptic Richard

1017
00:39:02,850 --> 00:39:00,940
Saunders lifetime member of skeptics

1018
00:39:04,860 --> 00:39:02,860
Australia he's on the line good morning

1019
00:39:06,690 --> 00:39:04,870
Richard good morning good morning

1020
00:39:09,470 --> 00:39:06,700
Richard do we need to be holding our

1021
00:39:12,180 --> 00:39:09,480
breath when we look sky woods I hope

1022
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:12,190
this is a great one this is a classic of

1023
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:13,770
skepticism now everybody I think

1024
00:39:19,250 --> 00:39:17,290
especially in the colder areas of

1025
00:39:21,510 --> 00:39:19,260
Australia the world have seen these

1026
00:39:24,300 --> 00:39:21,520
condensation trails or chemtrails long

1027
00:39:25,890 --> 00:39:24,310
streaks left by jet aircraft and in some

1028
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:25,900
places in the world they just crisscross

1029
00:39:29,070 --> 00:39:27,490
the sky and you can see these trails

1030
00:39:31,470 --> 00:39:29,080
staying up there for hours on end

1031
00:39:33,090 --> 00:39:31,480
because the air is very still but there

1032
00:39:34,620 --> 00:39:33,100
are a group of people out there and

1033
00:39:37,410 --> 00:39:34,630
quite a big group on the internet

1034
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:37,420
especially who think that these lines

1035
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:40,690
represent the leftovers from evil

1036
00:39:45,330 --> 00:39:43,090
chemicals I wonder what they are and

1037
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:45,340
even microchips dropped from the

1038
00:39:49,830 --> 00:39:47,650
airplanes by the government to control

1039
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:49,840
the population or to make a sick or to

1040
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:51,970
even control the weather it's a

1041
00:39:55,470 --> 00:39:53,530
wonderful classic of our conspiracy

1042
00:39:57,510 --> 00:39:55,480
theory there's quite a community isn't

1043
00:39:58,920 --> 00:39:57,520
there and it's quite a very big

1044
00:40:00,930 --> 00:39:58,930
community around the world on the

1045
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:00,940
internet who do actually believe in

1046
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:02,290
these chemtrails and that we're all

1047
00:40:06,630 --> 00:40:04,290
being controlled by various

1048
00:40:08,370 --> 00:40:06,640
authoritarian bodies how would the

1049
00:40:09,810 --> 00:40:08,380
microchips work though do they fall down

1050
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:09,820
and just land on your head or do they

1051
00:40:13,170 --> 00:40:11,770
become embedded in your body well I

1052
00:40:13,900 --> 00:40:13,180
guess the answer to that is they don't

1053
00:40:14,980 --> 00:40:13,910
of course

1054
00:40:16,539 --> 00:40:14,990
they don't work because they're

1055
00:40:18,549 --> 00:40:16,549
non-existent but you got you got a

1056
00:40:20,620 --> 00:40:18,559
wonder I mean people like to throw

1057
00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:20,630
around things like the conspiracy of the

1058
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:22,250
microchips and we're being controlled

1059
00:40:25,839 --> 00:40:24,170
but they're pretty short on the details

1060
00:40:27,730 --> 00:40:25,849
maybe if they stand out there with a net

1061
00:40:29,500 --> 00:40:27,740
one day and catch some and we can have

1062
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:29,510
them analyzed that would be a start I

1063
00:40:33,460 --> 00:40:31,970
guess but to the conspiracy theorist it

1064
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:33,470
doesn't matter all they have to do is

1065
00:40:37,539 --> 00:40:35,930
put these wild ideas out there they

1066
00:40:39,609 --> 00:40:37,549
convince themselves that this must be

1067
00:40:42,099 --> 00:40:39,619
the case and you know other people

1068
00:40:44,559 --> 00:40:42,109
around them will sort of fall in line

1069
00:40:45,789 --> 00:40:44,569
it's a bit of a worry really well people

1070
00:40:48,370 --> 00:40:45,799
have been and scientists have been

1071
00:40:50,770 --> 00:40:48,380
trying to at least affect the weather

1072
00:40:53,049 --> 00:40:50,780
over the years I've tried to seed clouds

1073
00:40:55,720 --> 00:40:53,059
is there any science behind the fact

1074
00:40:57,880 --> 00:40:55,730
that we can alter the weather pets very

1075
00:41:00,520 --> 00:40:57,890
very little I mean the weather weather

1076
00:41:02,799 --> 00:41:00,530
systems around the world these are huge

1077
00:41:05,559 --> 00:41:02,809
you know we're covering continents and

1078
00:41:07,299 --> 00:41:05,569
land masses and oceans and they generate

1079
00:41:09,579 --> 00:41:07,309
you know all sorts of parts of the world

1080
00:41:11,349 --> 00:41:09,589
with storms and things to think that we

1081
00:41:13,839 --> 00:41:11,359
could control them with our present

1082
00:41:16,750 --> 00:41:13,849
technologies is simply laughable we of

1083
00:41:19,359 --> 00:41:16,760
course we can't do that but to put

1084
00:41:21,519 --> 00:41:19,369
everybody's mind at ease these trails

1085
00:41:24,519 --> 00:41:21,529
you see across the sky are perfectly

1086
00:41:26,260 --> 00:41:24,529
understandable at high altitudes there

1087
00:41:28,630 --> 00:41:26,270
is very cold something like minus 60

1088
00:41:31,210 --> 00:41:28,640
degrees it's freezing you know way below

1089
00:41:33,190 --> 00:41:31,220
freezing when the jet rushes by it's

1090
00:41:38,289 --> 00:41:33,200
supersonic speeds or subsonic speeds

1091
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:38,299
depending on the jet the superheated the

1092
00:41:41,769 --> 00:41:40,010
air becomes superheated in the engine

1093
00:41:44,769 --> 00:41:41,779
and then pushed straight back out and

1094
00:41:46,569 --> 00:41:44,779
this actually causes a cloud and you can

1095
00:41:49,359 --> 00:41:46,579
see this yourself on a cold day if you

1096
00:41:50,980 --> 00:41:49,369
go breathe out on a cold day everybody

1097
00:41:52,569 --> 00:41:50,990
seen a little bit of vapor then

1098
00:41:54,510 --> 00:41:52,579
disappears in a second that's

1099
00:41:56,650 --> 00:41:54,520
essentially the same things these

1100
00:41:59,880 --> 00:41:56,660
aircraft are doing high up in the sky

1101
00:42:02,920 --> 00:41:59,890
except in the sky the water instantly

1102
00:42:05,079 --> 00:42:02,930
continent states around the superheated

1103
00:42:06,910 --> 00:42:05,089
air and the cloud simply hangs there if

1104
00:42:09,549 --> 00:42:06,920
it's not a windy day it's not going to

1105
00:42:11,019 --> 00:42:09,559
blow away very quickly but they believe

1106
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:11,029
the believers think that what they're

1107
00:42:15,609 --> 00:42:12,770
doing is sending up these biological

1108
00:42:17,829 --> 00:42:15,619
agents or vehicles out there to - what -

1109
00:42:20,769 --> 00:42:17,839
effect the population of the world yes

1110
00:42:23,410 --> 00:42:20,779
to control - well to fall in line with

1111
00:42:24,970 --> 00:42:23,420
the one-world government or to make us

1112
00:42:27,970 --> 00:42:24,980
sick so we have to keep buying

1113
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:27,980
pharmaceutical drugs to keep us better

1114
00:42:32,950 --> 00:42:29,690
and then we get sick again and it's an

1115
00:42:34,690 --> 00:42:32,960
endless cycle but it doesn't have to

1116
00:42:36,100 --> 00:42:34,700
make sense to the conspiracy theorist

1117
00:42:37,300 --> 00:42:36,110
these things don't actually have to make

1118
00:42:39,250 --> 00:42:37,310
sense to the rest of us they're

1119
00:42:42,370 --> 00:42:39,260
convinced and they're quite happy in

1120
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:42,380
that delusion no being a skeptic can you

1121
00:42:46,540 --> 00:42:44,690
ever pick a trend I mean if you're one

1122
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:46,550
of those people who just cannot pick

1123
00:42:51,090 --> 00:42:48,290
things because you're so skeptical that

1124
00:42:53,710 --> 00:42:51,100
you're going this will never take off I

1125
00:42:55,330 --> 00:42:53,720
remember going to see Powderfinger when

1126
00:42:56,710 --> 00:42:55,340
they were just starting off yep and I

1127
00:43:00,160 --> 00:42:56,720
walked away thinking yeah they're just

1128
00:43:01,690 --> 00:43:00,170
another loud band I didn't know

1129
00:43:05,260 --> 00:43:01,700
successful acts in Australian music

1130
00:43:07,990 --> 00:43:05,270
history that's right but I but you know

1131
00:43:09,940 --> 00:43:08,000
we're not meant to instantly pick future

1132
00:43:11,260 --> 00:43:09,950
trends I mean how can we sometimes we'll

1133
00:43:13,090 --> 00:43:11,270
get it right sometimes we'll get it

1134
00:43:14,770 --> 00:43:13,100
wrong like the rest of the population if

1135
00:43:16,450 --> 00:43:14,780
we got it right if we go away [\h__\h]

1136
00:43:18,670 --> 00:43:16,460
trends would be some sort of freak and I

1137
00:43:20,710 --> 00:43:18,680
think this descriptives would test you

1138
00:43:22,390 --> 00:43:20,720
for the $100,000 prize which takes us

1139
00:43:25,060 --> 00:43:22,400
back to last week's topic of time-travel

1140
00:43:28,270 --> 00:43:25,070
only if only we could jump leap forward

1141
00:43:30,190 --> 00:43:28,280
just a little bit a little bit as always

1142
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:30,200
great talking to you and we'll start

1143
00:43:40,930 --> 00:43:32,090
breathing in deeply again thank you very

1144
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:40,940
much please do we have to come back to

1145
00:43:45,790 --> 00:43:42,530
that story but something else that is

1146
00:43:48,670 --> 00:43:45,800
equally fantastic an outrageous only

1147
00:43:50,830 --> 00:43:48,680
Ali's the Yowie now you might not have

1148
00:43:52,570 --> 00:43:50,840
seen a Yowie Rob I hadn't seen when I

1149
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:52,580
think Moritz you've seen one but it

1150
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:53,690
doesn't mean that I don't believe that

1151
00:43:57,670 --> 00:43:56,210
they're out there somewhere most people

1152
00:43:59,470 --> 00:43:57,680
would have heard of it Ayoo is some

1153
00:44:01,810 --> 00:43:59,480
people call them a Bigfoot or a hairy

1154
00:44:03,850 --> 00:44:01,820
man sometimes there's even a version of

1155
00:44:05,500 --> 00:44:03,860
it called the dog man all right which

1156
00:44:07,150 --> 00:44:05,510
and I'm a little bit obsessed with the

1157
00:44:08,410 --> 00:44:07,160
dog man my best friend Marcus who I'm

1158
00:44:10,030 --> 00:44:08,420
sure I'm gonna have to get on the show

1159
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:10,040
oh I'm quite is obsessed with the dog

1160
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:12,530
man he's gone out into the bush camping

1161
00:44:17,830 --> 00:44:15,770
to try and find the dog man and swears

1162
00:44:19,810 --> 00:44:17,840
that he's actually come across one so so

1163
00:44:21,820 --> 00:44:19,820
they're a mythological beast don't they

1164
00:44:24,130 --> 00:44:21,830
yeah but they actually might exist and

1165
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:24,140
out there in the bush there is yeah

1166
00:44:31,060 --> 00:44:26,330
there is a guy who said he's not only

1167
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:31,070
seen a yo E but he's almost been killed

1168
00:44:36,340 --> 00:44:33,770
by a Yowie eat not on one occasion but

1169
00:44:38,620 --> 00:44:36,350
two occasions so yeah yeah we are they

1170
00:44:40,090 --> 00:44:38,630
rely or are they fake so we should speak

1171
00:44:41,860 --> 00:44:40,100
to somebody about that we should talk to

1172
00:44:44,370 --> 00:44:41,870
Richard Saunders because he's alive

1173
00:44:47,500 --> 00:44:44,380
of the Australian skeptics Association

1174
00:44:50,950 --> 00:44:47,510
now what is the story of a Yowie Richard

1175
00:44:53,380 --> 00:44:50,960
and how close did you actually come I've

1176
00:44:59,560 --> 00:44:53,390
never I've never come within a Lightyear

1177
00:45:03,400 --> 00:44:59,570
of you maybe it was me in a suit dark

1178
00:45:05,590 --> 00:45:03,410
night I don't know Joey's a very

1179
00:45:08,710 --> 00:45:05,600
interesting I mean I remember first

1180
00:45:10,570 --> 00:45:08,720
hearing about Joey's Oh roughly around

1181
00:45:12,130 --> 00:45:10,580
the mid nineteen seventies when I was a

1182
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:12,140
boy and there were reports of Yowies

1183
00:45:18,820 --> 00:45:15,010
which were on the tail coats of the

1184
00:45:20,590 --> 00:45:18,830
craze at the time for Bigfoot hmm in the

1185
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:20,600
nineteen seventies it was just a huge

1186
00:45:23,860 --> 00:45:22,610
American craze for Bigfoot people going

1187
00:45:26,620 --> 00:45:23,870
out there were movies and documentaries

1188
00:45:28,930 --> 00:45:26,630
and people have seen it and I think it

1189
00:45:30,700 --> 00:45:28,940
was a bit of nd here in Australia people

1190
00:45:33,490 --> 00:45:30,710
thought aren t we better have to cook up

1191
00:45:35,140 --> 00:45:33,500
something ourselves but but legends of

1192
00:45:36,910 --> 00:45:35,150
especially Aboriginal legends of

1193
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:36,920
mythical creatures go back thousands

1194
00:45:41,260 --> 00:45:39,170
upon thousands of years of course but

1195
00:45:45,100 --> 00:45:41,270
what we're really talking about is the

1196
00:45:47,470 --> 00:45:45,110
the possibility of an ape or a

1197
00:45:50,230 --> 00:45:47,480
human-like hairy creature running around

1198
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:50,240
the Australian bush how fascinating

1199
00:45:53,230 --> 00:45:51,770
I remember when I used to watch I was

1200
00:45:54,820 --> 00:45:53,240
obsessed with a show called great

1201
00:45:56,740 --> 00:45:54,830
unsolved mysteries or something like

1202
00:45:58,750 --> 00:45:56,750
that that Leonard Nimoy used to voice

1203
00:46:00,970 --> 00:45:58,760
that's Roger and every so often they

1204
00:46:02,590 --> 00:46:00,980
would replay the the Yowie or the

1205
00:46:04,780 --> 00:46:02,600
Bigfoot episode and it was all about

1206
00:46:06,550 --> 00:46:04,790
whether the footage was real and what

1207
00:46:08,530 --> 00:46:06,560
the evidence was and going back through

1208
00:46:10,540 --> 00:46:08,540
history and evolution to find out where

1209
00:46:12,490 --> 00:46:10,550
it might have come from what's the story

1210
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:12,500
about where the Aussie Yowie might have

1211
00:46:17,590 --> 00:46:15,770
come from well I mean since since

1212
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:17,600
there's no really good evidence to

1213
00:46:21,820 --> 00:46:20,090
suspect that it actually exists then

1214
00:46:23,740 --> 00:46:21,830
people can sort of let their

1215
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:23,750
imaginations run wild and come up with

1216
00:46:28,510 --> 00:46:25,850
all sorts of ideas and theories about it

1217
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:28,520
that show was called in search of with

1218
00:46:33,370 --> 00:46:30,770
Leonard Nimoy every show that was a good

1219
00:46:35,050 --> 00:46:33,380
show but when we seriously look at look

1220
00:46:36,940 --> 00:46:35,060
at it and if we assume for a moment well

1221
00:46:39,490 --> 00:46:36,950
these things are real there are real a

1222
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:39,500
like or human-like creatures in in

1223
00:46:44,470 --> 00:46:42,410
Australia then they must be part of the

1224
00:46:46,420 --> 00:46:44,480
environment like any other animal they

1225
00:46:47,470 --> 00:46:46,430
must have a breeding population for

1226
00:46:50,620 --> 00:46:47,480
genetic diversity

1227
00:46:54,070 --> 00:46:50,630
they must have prey they must eat at

1228
00:46:55,780 --> 00:46:54,080
least trees or berries or something they

1229
00:46:57,760 --> 00:46:55,790
must leave remains they

1230
00:47:01,750 --> 00:46:57,770
must leave carcasses they must have a

1231
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:01,760
fossil record none of these are apparent

1232
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:03,530
there is no evidence of anything like

1233
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:06,890
that the best evidence people have are

1234
00:47:12,820 --> 00:47:10,610
footprints and I've seen the footprints

1235
00:47:13,930 --> 00:47:12,830
collected by somebody called Rex Gilroy

1236
00:47:16,150 --> 00:47:13,940
in the Blue Mountains who has a

1237
00:47:19,990 --> 00:47:16,160
multitude of giant footprints of plastic

1238
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:20,000
cars but unfortunately you know they can

1239
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:22,370
simply be made that's just not very good

1240
00:47:25,450 --> 00:47:24,770
effort usually it's a fake footprint I

1241
00:47:28,270 --> 00:47:25,460
won't have it

1242
00:47:30,460 --> 00:47:28,280
this thing it's manufactured well one of

1243
00:47:32,380 --> 00:47:30,470
the giveaways about that is they look

1244
00:47:35,860 --> 00:47:32,390
comical to begin with they're completely

1245
00:47:38,500 --> 00:47:35,870
oversized and they're even now if a

1246
00:47:40,540 --> 00:47:38,510
giant creature say twelve feet tall a

1247
00:47:43,750 --> 00:47:40,550
couple of meters tall stomping about

1248
00:47:45,430 --> 00:47:43,760
they put the heel in and as we all do on

1249
00:47:46,720 --> 00:47:45,440
sand or whatever they'll make very

1250
00:47:48,250 --> 00:47:46,730
distinctive footprints motions

1251
00:47:51,430 --> 00:47:48,260
footprints I've seen I'm looking at some

1252
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:51,440
now I've quite even as if they've been

1253
00:47:57,250 --> 00:47:53,450
carefully chiseled and carved and

1254
00:47:59,230 --> 00:47:57,260
created but you know plaster casts of

1255
00:48:01,420 --> 00:47:59,240
giant footprints are fun and interesting

1256
00:48:04,300 --> 00:48:01,430
certainly don't constitute evidence we

1257
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:04,310
need a strand of hair then we can get

1258
00:48:07,780 --> 00:48:06,170
some DNA and discover what it's all

1259
00:48:10,270 --> 00:48:07,790
about but I get back to the original

1260
00:48:11,980 --> 00:48:10,280
point if these creatures exist they must

1261
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:11,990
be part of the natural Australian

1262
00:48:15,310 --> 00:48:13,850
environment like every other animal but

1263
00:48:17,950 --> 00:48:15,320
there's just no evidence for it so

1264
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:17,960
Richard it's like a Loch Ness monster

1265
00:48:24,490 --> 00:48:20,810
with legs and we don't have physical

1266
00:48:26,110 --> 00:48:24,500
proof that they exist yeah I mentioned

1267
00:48:29,260 --> 00:48:26,120
there was this gentleman who had

1268
00:48:33,220 --> 00:48:29,270
dedicated his life to hunting down

1269
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:33,230
yeah he's and he has said that he's he's

1270
00:48:37,660 --> 00:48:34,970
run into them a couple of times and

1271
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:37,670
almost been killed by a Yowie on two

1272
00:48:41,710 --> 00:48:40,130
occasions have you ever spoken to that

1273
00:48:44,890 --> 00:48:41,720
particular gentleman I don't have his

1274
00:48:48,100 --> 00:48:44,900
name I note that no reports that like

1275
00:48:49,690 --> 00:48:48,110
that have come my way unfortunately that

1276
00:48:52,750 --> 00:48:49,700
doesn't constitute evidence either if

1277
00:48:55,450 --> 00:48:52,760
somebody says this happened to me then

1278
00:48:57,010 --> 00:48:55,460
and if ten people say this happened to

1279
00:48:58,630 --> 00:48:57,020
be there still not evidence that's just

1280
00:49:00,640 --> 00:48:58,640
people saying this happened to me oh

1281
00:49:03,220 --> 00:49:00,650
yeah it really happened we just don't

1282
00:49:06,970 --> 00:49:03,230
know we weren't there there's a spectrum

1283
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:06,980
of things but genuinely mistaking what

1284
00:49:09,700 --> 00:49:08,690
happened on the cold night or whatever

1285
00:49:12,610 --> 00:49:09,710
it was or

1286
00:49:15,370 --> 00:49:12,620
and we don't know it simply doesn't mean

1287
00:49:17,020 --> 00:49:15,380
that we even begin to believe because of

1288
00:49:19,150 --> 00:49:17,030
all the other evidence it's not there to

1289
00:49:22,240 --> 00:49:19,160
back it up now have you come across the

1290
00:49:24,130 --> 00:49:22,250
the dog men stories because Dogma is

1291
00:49:25,240 --> 00:49:24,140
slightly different to the Yowie story so

1292
00:49:26,650 --> 00:49:25,250
basically it kind of sounds like

1293
00:49:28,300 --> 00:49:26,660
something that's evolved in the outback

1294
00:49:30,460 --> 00:49:28,310
from maybe something that like the

1295
00:49:32,470 --> 00:49:30,470
werewolf stories it's like the dingo

1296
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:32,480
version and it will look like it's a

1297
00:49:37,180 --> 00:49:34,610
it's a very large running kind of

1298
00:49:39,700 --> 00:49:37,190
humanoid dingo and then and then they

1299
00:49:41,290 --> 00:49:39,710
seem to stand up on some very exotic

1300
00:49:43,030 --> 00:49:41,300
horizon and you can just see their

1301
00:49:45,310 --> 00:49:43,040
profiles and I've read so many stories

1302
00:49:46,750 --> 00:49:45,320
like this that I like some part of me

1303
00:49:49,720 --> 00:49:46,760
thinks that maybe there's something to

1304
00:49:51,630 --> 00:49:49,730
it yeah again wow that's great don't

1305
00:49:54,250 --> 00:49:51,640
mean people have wonderful imagination

1306
00:49:56,890 --> 00:49:54,260
fortunately it sounds like an old

1307
00:50:00,610 --> 00:49:56,900
European legend just just co-opted for

1308
00:50:04,860 --> 00:50:00,620
Australia can I just say making Richard

1309
00:50:11,290 --> 00:50:09,070
nevertheless if people could bring us a

1310
00:50:13,090 --> 00:50:11,300
carcass or a bit of hair and we could

1311
00:50:16,210 --> 00:50:13,100
and it would prove to be a Yowie

1312
00:50:17,710 --> 00:50:16,220
or a creature unknown to science that's

1313
00:50:20,140 --> 00:50:17,720
what science is all about you know

1314
00:50:22,300 --> 00:50:20,150
discovering new things we wouldn't we

1315
00:50:23,740 --> 00:50:22,310
wouldn't then say no it's impossible it

1316
00:50:25,720 --> 00:50:23,750
can't be you know we'll never believe

1317
00:50:27,820 --> 00:50:25,730
that we we go by what the best

1318
00:50:31,030 --> 00:50:27,830
scientific evidence suggests or brings

1319
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:31,040
to our attention again with the werewolf

1320
00:50:35,470 --> 00:50:33,410
character in the outback or the Yowie if

1321
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:35,480
they're there great if they are there

1322
00:50:39,850 --> 00:50:37,610
where is all the confirming evidence

1323
00:50:41,530 --> 00:50:39,860
like every other creature yeah so you're

1324
00:50:43,390 --> 00:50:41,540
open to the fact that these things will

1325
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:43,400
exist if you get some evidence so I

1326
00:50:49,030 --> 00:50:45,890
suppose that's pretty much sums up what

1327
00:50:50,620 --> 00:50:49,040
the Australian skeptics are all bear hey

1328
00:50:52,330 --> 00:50:50,630
yep Richard over the summer we're gonna

1329
00:50:53,980 --> 00:50:52,340
talk to you on a few more occasions and

1330
00:51:02,020 --> 00:50:53,990
find out about other things you don't

1331
00:51:04,090 --> 00:51:02,030
believe in okay skeptic dot-com dodo you

1332
00:51:05,950 --> 00:51:04,100
alright mate you have a lovely Christmas

1333
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:05,960
and thanks for joining us today thank

1334
00:51:07,990 --> 00:51:06,170
you

1335
00:51:09,820 --> 00:51:08,000
that is Richard Saunders from the

1336
00:51:11,290 --> 00:51:09,830
Australian skeptics all right the time

1337
00:51:13,690 --> 00:51:11,300
it is a quarter past eight and in

1338
00:51:22,089 --> 00:51:13,700
Brisbane that's what apartment

1339
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:22,099
[Music]

1340
00:51:26,900 --> 00:51:25,170
hello listeners a maximum fun I want to

1341
00:51:28,819 --> 00:51:26,910
tell you about our newest podcast that

1342
00:51:30,410 --> 00:51:28,829
tells you all about the truth of the

1343
00:51:31,670 --> 00:51:30,420
Flat Earth have you been looking out

1344
00:51:32,599 --> 00:51:31,680
over the horizon and you've been

1345
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:32,609
thinking wait a minute

1346
00:51:37,549 --> 00:51:34,890
this doesn't look round I've been lied

1347
00:51:42,559 --> 00:51:37,559
to my whole life what is NASA doing with

1348
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:42,569
52 million dollars a day uh come on we

1349
00:51:47,690 --> 00:51:45,690
explode the myths just kidding

1350
00:51:49,819 --> 00:51:47,700
we're oh no Ross and Carrie and we

1351
00:51:52,009 --> 00:51:49,829
investigate extraordinary claims that's

1352
00:51:54,380 --> 00:51:52,019
right we investigate extraordinary

1353
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:54,390
claims firsthand we go undercover in

1354
00:51:58,609 --> 00:51:56,130
fringe groups we get alternative

1355
00:52:00,589 --> 00:51:58,619
medicine treatments and we hang out with

1356
00:52:03,049 --> 00:52:00,599
people who have unusual beliefs like

1357
00:52:05,359 --> 00:52:03,059
flat earthers 9/11 truthers we do ghost

1358
00:52:07,130 --> 00:52:05,369
investigations we've joined Scientology

1359
00:52:08,839 --> 00:52:07,140
and we got baptized in the Mormon Church

1360
00:52:12,980 --> 00:52:08,849
if it goes bump in the night

1361
00:52:14,359 --> 00:52:12,990
then so do we hmm why don't you check

1362
00:52:25,859 --> 00:52:14,369
out oh no Ross and Carrie and

1363
00:52:31,750 --> 00:52:28,359
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1364
00:52:34,089 --> 00:52:31,760
zone next week even more from skeptic on

1365
00:52:36,900 --> 00:52:34,099
where main our chance to carry poppy

1366
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:36,910
from the oh no Ross and carry podcast

1367
00:52:46,359 --> 00:52:42,410
now just a quick note about this saying

1368
00:52:48,070 --> 00:52:46,369
this term this expression man flu I I

1369
00:52:50,859 --> 00:52:48,080
had to wonder about it this week because

1370
00:52:53,859 --> 00:52:50,869
somebody said to me along the way when I

1371
00:52:56,260 --> 00:52:53,869
was chatting to somebody they used the

1372
00:52:59,800 --> 00:52:56,270
term man flu oh you've just got man flu

1373
00:53:01,870 --> 00:52:59,810
men can't handle being sick well this

1374
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:01,880
might be this might be the case in in

1375
00:53:05,380 --> 00:53:03,890
certain situations but I can promise you

1376
00:53:11,950 --> 00:53:05,390
that when you're lying in bed with the

1377
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:11,960
fever coughing head pounding or not

1378
00:53:16,720 --> 00:53:16,010
being able to think clearly it's it's

1379
00:53:20,500 --> 00:53:16,730
okay

1380
00:53:23,230 --> 00:53:20,510
you know you sometimes men and women get

1381
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:23,240
really sick and and it's a virus or it's

1382
00:53:28,839 --> 00:53:24,890
an infection or something like that

1383
00:53:30,670 --> 00:53:28,849
so be kind if someone says they're

1384
00:53:34,870 --> 00:53:30,680
really feeling ill don't write it off as

1385
00:53:36,730 --> 00:53:34,880
man flu not necessarily maybe this I'm

1386
00:53:39,790 --> 00:53:36,740
on the mend now I'm feeling somewhat

1387
00:53:44,620 --> 00:53:39,800
better as I'm still sitting here in my

1388
00:53:46,180 --> 00:53:44,630
car on my secret mission thank you to

1389
00:53:48,130 --> 00:53:46,190
those people who continue to support the

1390
00:53:50,849 --> 00:53:48,140
skeptic zones through patreon and PayPal

1391
00:53:53,230 --> 00:53:50,859
you can do that at skeptic zone TV

1392
00:53:57,280 --> 00:53:53,240
YouTube people who actually support the

1393
00:54:00,070 --> 00:53:57,290
show that means everybody else can

1394
00:54:05,450 --> 00:54:00,080
listen to the show without your support

1395
00:54:11,450 --> 00:54:08,210
and I notice over it may not calm today

1396
00:54:13,190 --> 00:54:11,460
you may not spitting up lots of podcasts

1397
00:54:15,829 --> 00:54:13,200
as he normally does this time of year

1398
00:54:19,099 --> 00:54:15,839
for me now it's Christmas I know it's

1399
00:54:21,349 --> 00:54:19,109
Christmas podcasts and the latest news

1400
00:54:23,569 --> 00:54:21,359
on the calendar is I think may not tells

1401
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:23,579
me that will be available maybe next

1402
00:54:27,470 --> 00:54:25,290
week or the week after keep an eye at

1403
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:27,480
Maynard comm delay you form a nerds

1404
00:54:32,569 --> 00:54:31,050
annual calendar but for this week I'm

1405
00:54:35,030 --> 00:54:32,579
going back to bed this is Richard

1406
00:54:41,780 --> 00:54:35,040
Saunders signing off from a mysterious

1407
00:54:43,819 --> 00:54:41,790
location Sydney Australia you've been

1408
00:54:50,750 --> 00:54:43,829
listening to the skeptic zone podcast

1409
00:54:53,210 --> 00:54:50,760
please visit our website at wwlp.com tax

1410
00:54:57,260 --> 00:54:53,220
and to access the bat catalog of

1411
00:54:58,970 --> 00:54:57,270
episodes going back to 2008 you can

1412
00:55:02,030 --> 00:54:58,980
follow the skeptic zone podcast on

1413
00:55:04,309 --> 00:55:02,040
twitter at skeptic zone visit our

1414
00:55:07,700 --> 00:55:04,319
facebook page or leave a review on

1415
00:55:11,059 --> 00:55:07,710
itunes you can also support the skeptic

1416
00:55:13,430 --> 00:55:11,069
zone via patreon or PayPal the skeptic

1417
00:55:15,349 --> 00:55:13,440
zone podcast is an independent

1418
00:55:17,569 --> 00:55:15,359
production reviews and opinions

1419
00:55:19,700 --> 00:55:17,579
expressed on the skeptic zone and not

1420
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:19,710
necessarily those of Australian skeptics